Toyota has given up on EVs. Not.

[Racer88]

https://www.motor1.com/features/787068/porsche-ev-sports-car-might-be-dead-opinion/

 

[Bongo Lewi]

https://www.motor1.com/features/787068/porsche-ev-sports-car-might-be-dead-opinion/

Same article says:

"That doesn’t mean Porsche is abandoning EVs altogether, though. In Europe, one in every three Porsches sold in 2025 was electric. Plug-in hybrids and fully electric models remain popular, making up nearly 58 percent of European sales."

The usual car mag/blog headline written to pander to gasoline huffers. Understandable. That's their audience. Old men. 58% of all European Porsche sales not purchased by old men were hybrids or EVs. One in three Porsches sold in 2025 was electric. Thus two out of three Porsche buyers are old men. The Porsche they bought will be their last. Each gas burning Porsche comes with a gift card for a Porsche-branded grave marker.

 

[Racer88]

That doesn’t mean Porsche is abandoning EVs altogether, though. In Europe, one in every three Porsches sold in 2025 was electric. Plug-in hybrids and fully electric models remain popular, making up nearly 58 percent of European sales."

Yes.... I saw that, of course. Porsche now sells more SUVs than sports cars. Around here, I see more Maserati, Lamborghini, and Porsche SUVs than their sports car models. A lot more. It's not even close. But they are ICE cars. Interestingly, I do NOT see Ferrari SUVs on the road here.

And also see bolded above. We ain't Europe. We ain't like Europe in ANY way. Two VERY different cultures... especially when it comes to transportation, both private and public.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Yes.... I saw that, of course. Porsche now sells more SUVs than sports cars. Around here, I see more Maserati, Lamborghini, and Porsche SUVs than their sports car models. A lot more. It's not even close. But they are ICE cars. Interestingly, I do NOT see Ferrari SUVs on the road here.

And also see bolded above. We ain't Europe. We ain't like Europe in ANY way. Two VERY different cultures... especially when it comes to transportation, both private and public.

A lot of people loved horses. Then came the Model T.

There were some well heeled residents in and around me when I was living in the San Juan Islands. I saw Lambos and Ferrari's more often than Porsche. No idea why. A man who was acquainted with the owner of the house I was staying in had a big car barn with a collection of vintage Porsche's. Big bucks. A Speedster, 356 hardtop, some others I think were more rare. I was invited to a soirée and had a chance to see the collection. Impressive.

 

[Racer88]

A lot of people loved horses. Then came the Model T.

The Model T was better than a horse in many ways.

EVs are NOT better than ICE in SO many ways. In many ways they're WORSE... despite the delusional protestations by the virtue-signaling pawns.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

The Model T was better than a horse in many ways.

EVs are NOT better than ICE in SO many ways. In many ways they're WORSE... despite the delusional protestations by the virtue-signaling pawns.

There was no convincing a horse lover that was true.

This is the most likely scenario. The first two are indisputable because it has already happened. The virtue signaling pawns are going to win this chess match. Some people will still ride a horse to work. In less than ten years 6 out of ten people will have an EV in the driveway.

 

[Racer88]

There was no convincing a horse lover that was true.

This is the most likely scenario. The first two are indisputable because it has already happened. The virtue signaling pawns are going to win this chess match. Some people will still ride a horse to work. In less than ten years 6 out of ten people will have an EV in the driveway.

View attachment 38261

Time will tell. But my money is on your prediction being wrong.... very very wrong... way off. Not even close. It's not happening. It's actually impossible with current trends... and that pesky issue of charging infrastructure and the Laws of Thermodynamics. The infrastructure MIGHT be possible with nuclear power plants. But if that ever happens, it will be decades away.

Your horse analogy is a false equivalency. But it sure sounds folksy!

 

[NavyVette]

Model T's were CHOSEN by people. All of the EU has an EV mandate:
The EU-wide regulation requires all 27 EU member states to end sales of new petrol and diesel passenger cars by 2035, effectively mandating 100% zero-emission new vehicle sales.

This applies uniformly to:

Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden

Great Britain has their own mandate:
The UK has its own independent EV mandate:

2030: Ban on new petrol & diesel car sales
2035: All new cars must be 100% zero-emission

Norway:
2025: Target for 100% zero-emission new car sales
Already effectively achieved (~96% EV sales)

Iceland:
2030: Ban on new ICE car sales

Switzerland:
Legally binding climate law targeting 100% zero-emission new cars by 2035

So yeah, I could give a shit how many EV's are sold in Europe. It's totally irrelevant.

 

[Racer88]

Model T's were CHOSEN by people. All of the EU has an EV mandate:
The EU-wide regulation requires all 27 EU member states to end sales of new petrol and diesel passenger cars by 2035, effectively mandating 100% zero-emission new vehicle sales.

This applies uniformly to:

Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden

Great Britain has their own mandate:
The UK has its own independent EV mandate:

2030: Ban on new petrol & diesel car sales
2035: All new cars must be 100% zero-emission

Norway:
2025: Target for 100% zero-emission new car sales
Already effectively achieved (~96% EV sales)

Iceland:
2030: Ban on new ICE car sales

Switzerland:
Legally binding climate law targeting 100% zero-emission new cars by 2035

So yeah, I could give a shit how many EV's are sold in Europe. It's totally irrelevant.

They're so great, they have to FORCE them on the market. LOL!

 

[no4mk1t]

A question that comes to mind is, are most car buyers today dazzled by the tech more than the mechanics of the propulsion system?

I think it would be interesting to conduct an experiment.
If you took two identical cars and one was a gas burner, and one was electric, and that were devoid of modern tech, which one would the public choose based only on what makes them go?
Just give them the basics of heat, A/C, P/S, P/B, and that's it. No gadgets to distract from the basic driving experience.
Let them drive the car for a year and then swap. This would be enough time for preconceived notions to either be dispelled, or reinforced.
They would be responsible for all expenses such as fuel, electricity, oil changes, parts and any service needed.

This would replace opinions with experience as fans of each camp are quick to cite the advantages and downplay disadvantages.

Then interview them for likes/dislikes and which one would they buy if the price was the same.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

So what if there are mandates everywhere on the planet except the US? That's even more reason to support the argument that ICE is on the way out. Does anybody really believe carmakers in the US and going to produce ICE vehicles when every other market on the planet is buying EVs? Those who believe that don't get how multinational corporations work. Cars and trucks are a global market.

Yea.... but Americans are smarter than everybody else, right? We don't respond to the marketing efforts of big companies pumping billions of dollars into selling what they want to sell. Let's talk about asbestos, cigarettes, drugs, soft drinks, alcohol, and fast food.

What people say they want today doesn't mean fuck all. Big Auto will create the demand. Watch it play out. People can shake their fists in the air and rage at the machine. Nobody gives a fuck. The growth of EVs over the next few years is a no brainer. Cheaper to mass produce, requires fewer workers to build, and needs little maintenance. Duh.

The 'grid' not being able to handle it is bullshit. Ask me how I know.

What we are witnessing now with the US carmakers pulling back is a result of them realizing they don't have a clue how to build EVs. They fucked up. Second, instead of marketing EVs to the public they relied upon government mandates which are often not well received. There was pissing and moaning for years about emissions regulation, seat belts, shock absorbing bumpers, and unleaded gas. Now there's something new to bitch about. You know who cares? Nobody that matters.

Uncle Sam is not going to make anybody buy an EV. They are going to do it on their own. Call them sheep. I don't give a shit. It doesn't change my argument.

If better made any difference, Bud Light would never have existed.

 

[no4mk1t]

The Madison Ave. ad agencies will create psy op ad campaigns to convince the public what they really want is an EV. Peeps will buy them thinking it their idea.
Chase Hughes spells out how this has been going on for years.

 

[no4mk1t]

If better made any difference, Bud Light would never have existed.

Actually, Miller Lite was the first light beer whose ad campaigns convinced a generation to love the very kind of beer their fathers and grandfathers hated when they were in the military and only allowed "3.2 beer" at the EM club.

But yes, once the automakers go full blown pys ops, peeps will clamor for them.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

A question that comes to mind is, are most car buyers today dazzled by the tech more than the mechanics of the propulsion system?

I think it would be interesting to conduct an experiment.
If you took two identical cars and one was a gas burner, and one was electric, and that were devoid of modern tech, which one would the public choose based only on what makes them go?
Just give them the basics of heat, A/C, P/S, P/B, and that's it. No gadgets to distract from the basic driving experience.
Let them drive the car for a year and then swap. This would be enough time for preconceived notions to either be dispelled, or reinforced.
They would be responsible for all expenses such as fuel, electricity, oil changes, parts and any service needed.

This would replace opinions with experience as fans of each camp are quick to cite the advantages and downplay disadvantages.

Then interview them for likes/dislikes and which one would they buy if the price was the same.

Under those controlled conditions, it would be an EV every time. Miles driven would also matter.

Although I have read blogs to the contrary, which are probably oil company bots or Musk haters, not a single person I personally know who bought an EV would go back to ICE. Not even one. I personally know 8 people who bought Teslas since the first Roadster came out. A couple of others: A Cadillac Lyric, a Blazer and a Hyundai. Two of the not-Tesla group also have gas powered SUVs.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Actually, Miller Lite was the first light beer whose ad campaigns convinced a generation to love the very kind of beer their fathers and grandfathers hated when they were in the military and only allowed "3.2 beer" at the EM club.

But yes, once the automakers go full blown pys ops, peeps will clamor for them.

Can't say I never drank cheap beer but that was in my youth. I'm not sure which ended up being the bigger brand... Miller Lite or Bud Light. Suffice it to say in both cases marketing made drinking piss water a thing. Like a billion dollar thing. Cars are going to follow suit. Everything is always about money and profitability.

Get ready for Drives great. No filling. And commercials that suggest hot chicks in bikinis love guys with EVs. And perfect moms driving their kids to school with no emissions. To save the Earth for future generations.

I've seen the future and I'm going to laugh my ass off when it happens.

 

[Racer88]

but Americans are smarter than everybody else, right?

Yes. That's true. We are. Really. And we're better in every way, as well.

I thought that was "settled science."

 

[NavyVette]

So what if there are mandates everywhere on the planet except the US? That's even more reason to support the argument that ICE is on the way out. Does anybody really believe carmakers in the US and going to produce ICE vehicles when every other market on the planet is buying EVs? Those who believe that don't get how multinational corporations work. Cars and trucks are a global market.

You do realize the rest of the workd has major tarrifs on American cars, right?

 

[Racer88]

You do realize the rest of the workd has major tarrifs on American cars, right?

Yep. Very few American cars are sold in Europe:

https://www.acea.auto/files/EU-US_automobile_trade-facts_figures.pdf

Sticker shock: Why US cars are frozen out of the European market

Why don’t foreigners want to buy American cars, including those that are the most popular in America? EU tariffs aren’t helping, nor are different preferences in the size of vehicles.

www.foxbusiness.com

Even fewer (far fewer) in Japan:

You'll Never Believe Which American Brand Sells The Most Cars In Japan

Despite a strong preference for European vehicles and tough taxes on large engines, Jeep has become the most popular American car brand in Japan. How?

carbuzz.com

 

[Bongo Lewi]

You do realize the rest of the workd has major tarrifs on American cars, right?

Yep. Still doesnt matter. GM builds cars in Australia, Ford builds cars for the UK and all across Europe in local assembly plants. Stellantis also. But they aren’t an American company anymore. European Jeeps are made in Italy.

Most foreign car makers assemble cars in the US for the same reasons. Toyota, Mazda, BMW, Mercedes, others assemble US market cars here.

Same thing with guns. Beretta, Sig, Taurus build guns here. Because they have to. Guns made in the US are not exported to Europe.

Best selling American car in China? Tesla. This car is among the most popular cars in China:
Made by GM. In China. It’s an EV

 

[Bongo Lewi]

You do realize the rest of the workd has major tarrifs on American cars, right?

Yep. Still doesnt matter. GM builds cars in Australia, Ford builds cars for the UK and all across Europe in local assembly plants.
Stellantis also. But they aren’t an American company anymore.

Most foreign car makers assemble cars in the US for the same reasons. Toyota, Mazda, BMW, Mercedes, others assemble US market cars here.

Same thing with guns. Beretta, Sig, Taurus build guns here. Because they have to. Guns made in the US are not exported to Europe.

Best selling American car in China? Tesla. This car is among the most popular cars in China:View attachment 38271
Made by GM. In China.

Ford sells about half a million cars annually in U.K/Europe. Those cars and trucks are built there and are not sold in the US. They also build and sell cars in Latin America. All carmakers do this.